The rogue in Forever is a "designed, awaiting construction" class: the talent layout and generated data are fully in place, the old implementation is preserved verbatim as comments, and the design intent can be reconstructed completely. Talent provenance is judged by spell ID bands (classic <30k / Forever's own 1.22M–1.31M).
One, current implementation status
- 14 ability stubs awaiting porting: Ambush/Backstab/Eviscerate/Expose Armor/Garrote/Poison/Rupture/Sinister Strike/Slice and Dice/Stealth/Vanish + three spec talent files
- 45 TBC implementations preserved verbatim as comments ("The TBC implementation, kept for the port")
- An output baseline (golden baseline) already exists
- Spell generated tables are complete — all the data is there; only the mechanics port remains
Two, two changes already landed
1. Envenom and Shiv are cut
TBC's poison finisher/off-hand trigger package exits entirely: poisons return to their vanilla role — the passive poison system plus Vile Poisons / Improved Poisons talents.
2. Mutilate is not a return — it is a remake
"Was 34413; Forever reworked Mutilate onto an entirely new set of spell ids"
- TBC ID 34413 → a brand-new ID set: main table 1310707 + 1241582/84, plus a MutilateTriggered family of 6 rows (1241585-90, 1310705/06) — far more mechanically complex than the TBC version (with triggered sub-spell structures)
- It remains a talent (Assassination tier 9 capstone), not made trainable as WotLK did
Three, the three trees (Forever layout record)
Assassination — tree depth 9 tiers
| Tier | Implemented | Unmodeled | Forever additions |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Improved Eviscerate, Malice | Remorseless Attacks | |
| 2 | Murder, Puncturing Wounds (original 1224716+1310710) | ||
| 3 | Improved Expose Armor, Lethality | ||
| 4 | Vile Poisons | Improved Poisons (lives in the poison system) | |
| 5 | Cold Blood | Fleet Footed, Quick Recovery | Improved Kidney Shot |
| 6 | Seal Fate | ||
| 7 | Vigor | Deadened Nerves | |
| 9 | Mutilate (remade capstone) | Venom (original 1310703) |
Combat — 7 tiers
| Tier | Implemented | Unmodeled | Forever additions |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Improved Gouge, Improved Sinister Strike, Lightning Reflexes | ||
| 2 | Precision | Deflection | |
| 3 | (entire tier unimplemented) | ||
| 4 | Dual Wield Specialization | Improved Kick | |
| 5 | Blade Flurry | ||
| 6 | Weapon Expertise, Aggression | Blade Twisting | |
| 7 | Adrenaline Rush | Nerves of Steel | Flawless Execution (original 1310711), Endurance, Hack and Slash, Improved Sprint, Riposte, Improved Kick |
Subtlety — 7 tiers
| Tier | Implemented | Unmodeled | Forever additions |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Opportunity | Master of Deception | |
| 3 | Initiative, Ghostly Strike, Improved Ambush | ||
| 4 | Elusiveness, Serrated Blades | Setup | |
| 5 | Preparation, Dirty Deeds, Hemorrhage | Heightened Senses | |
| 7 | Premeditation | Enveloping Shadows, Cheat Death | Quietus (original 1310728, 5 ranks), Thousand Cuts (original 1310721 + trigger 1310723), Cutthroat, Dirty Tricks (original 1224782), Improved Distract, Master of Deception (Forever slot) |
Note: names like Improved Kidney Shot / Remorseless Attacks / Venom / Deflection / Endurance / Riposte come from classic or WotLK but are all marked "new in Forever" — their tree positions/values are new Forever designs; Quietus, Thousand Cuts, Coup de Grâce, Flawless Execution, Puncturing Wounds, Venom and Dirty Tricks are the seven ID-confirmed Forever original talents.
Four, the three-era comparison
| Dimension | Vanilla 60 | WotLK 80 | Forever 60 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Damage skeleton | Sinister Strike/Backstab + Eviscerate/Rupture | Mutilate + Envenom rotation | vanilla skeleton kept + remade Mutilate |
| Mutilate | Does not exist | 41→51-point talent | remade talent (Assassination T9 capstone, brand-new IDs + trigger family) |
| Envenom/Shiv | Do not exist | Core of the poison rotation | cut (poisons return to passive) |
| Poisons | Passive system | Reworked (Wound Poison trainable, Deadly Brew) | Vanilla passive system |
| Killing Spree / Shadowstep / HFB | None | Three 51-point capstones | none of them |
| Hemorrhage / Ghostly Strike | Talents | Hemorrhage trainable | Kept (Subtlety T5/T3) |
| Subtlety stealth talents | Present (MoD/Camouflage/Setup) | Same | Kept and moved into the Forever additions zone (values re-tuned) |
| Tree depth | ~8 tiers | Deeper | Assassination 9 tiers, Combat/Subtlety 7 |
| Original talents | — | — | 7 ID-confirmed (finishing theme: Quietus/Thousand Cuts/Coup de Grâce...) |
Five, design reading
- The vanilla skeleton is completely untouched: combo-point generation and spenders (Sinister Strike/Backstab/Ambush/Garrote), finishers (Eviscerate/Rupture/Expose Armor), Slice and Dice upkeep, passive poisons — not one 1.12 rotation piece changed.
- The only "modern ability" entry is the remade Mutilate: Forever did not copy TBC/WotLK's Mutilate but rebuilt it on a whole new ID set (the 6-row trigger family hints at interactions with poisons or stealth state), placed at the deepest capstone of Assassination.
- The original talents are named around "the finish": Quietus, Thousand Cuts, Coup de Grâce, Flawless Execution — all designed around the finisher identity.
- Subtlety's many stealth/control talents are "unmodeled" for the simulator (they produce no DPS) — an honest limitation of the simulator's scope, not evidence of absence in game.
- Compared with the paladin: the paladin is "reborn" (the reference implementation is done), the rogue is "designed, awaiting construction" — data, layout and baseline all ready; the only missing piece is porting the 45 TBC comment blocks onto Forever values.